Before having their heads carved off by the Satanic forces of the Islamic State in post “Arab Spring” Libya, some of the Coptic Christians can be seen and heard muttering “O Lord Jesus Christ,” say Arabic media.
Do not be deceived: this is a war on Christians — one that began almost 1,400 years ago, when Islam was born, and has been consistent since.
Update: According to Coptic Bishop Anba Antonios Aziz Mina: “The video of their execution was like a dreadful mise-en-scene staged to spread terror. Nevertheless, in that diabolic product of bloodthirsty play-acting and horror, some martyrs can clearly be seen to say at the moment of their barbarous execution ‘Lord, Jesus Christ!’. The name of Jesus was their last word. Like the passion of the early martyrs, they entrusted themselves to He, who moments later, would welcome them into his embrace. This was how they celebrated their victory, a victory of which no executioner could ever rob them. With that name, whispered at the very last, their martyrdom was sealed.”
Mr. Ibrahim: Why won’t more Christians in the West aggressively oppose the jihad? I am a Protestant Evangelical and was impressed by the piece you wrote regarding the “Islamic Reformation” as compared and contrasted to the Protestant Reformation. Almost all Evangelical Protestants I know detest Islam in the most severe manner. Yet, they do NOTHING to oppose the political jihad. Once the topic is broached they become fatalistic or excessively pacifistic or otherworldly. I mention this, not only because I am a Protestant who loves the Protestant Church(es), but because the conservative Protestants, again, demonstrate a very high incidence of accurate uncompromising insight as to the extreme evil of Islam and if they could be moved to action would be a formidable social and political force against Sharia.
Well, I guess part of it is fear. Fear of being yelled at, accused, shunned……you name it. We live in a Western world these days nearly devoid of Religion, or even the mention of God. I mean in mass media, nationally. You tune to the media at large and you hear totally different stories from ones you hear on Protestant or Catholic media. The political right-ness, if you will, has been “be sensitive to others, do not offend anyone” all at the price of denying yourself, your culture, heritage and Religion. But what really belies all of this is that we are faithless these days. Our faith is money, sex, fashion, drugs, and “tolerance” at the expense of the truth. Because tolerance gets us going and helps us avoid painful events. It is a hedonistic world we live in, at least in the “supposedly” Christian West. It all goes back to globalization which brought movement of people along with it where they really don’t belong- at least that’s how they perceive themselves and the new society around them!
These Protestant brothers and sisters I am referring to are real and legitimate Christians. They are not hedonistic. What I was getting at are some commonly held and misapplied theological beliefs such as:
1. Pretribulational rapture and some kind of assurance that faithful Christians will not suffer. I believe that the Rapture will take place before the wrath and that Christians will be persecuted. God’s wrath is not persecution by the ungodly.
2. Selective pacifism (e.g. “turn the other cheek” unless we are arguing about the color of the carpet in the sanctuary).
3. Perhaps a misunderstanding of Romans 13?
God bless you and thanks for your response.
I suspect that many Protestants don’t believe that these Copts are “legitimate” Christians. This plays into the hands of American Anti-CAtholicism. They don’t understand the history of Christianity pre-1500. They think it all superstitious and most are ignorant of the ancient liturgical Christian traditions. Many see Rome as the Whore of Babylon and they either consciously or unconsciously think that Coptic Christianity is somehow an off-shoot or a remnant of this false religion.
I say this as a devout Roman Catholic, married to an Evangelical Assembly of God husband with a Master’s Degree in Medieval Church history.
I don’t think every Protestant believes they aren’t genuine Christians.
I’m Charismatic but I know most of these people genuinely love Jesus
Correct.
There is a bit of a problem in the South. I am Catholic with Protestant relatives. I have lived in New England, the West and Midwest.
I currently live in Texas, there are regional differences.
I believe all who belong to Jeshua Messiah are Christian, regardless of denomination, except Mormonism, which I studied for some time.
I also read the Quran and some Hadiths.
I am still shocked. I am hoping Christians will pull together, rather than exacerbate further divisions. Islam is the enemy, to be sure.
Many Christians have been misled by their own churches and ministers, priests or other clergy.
I agree with that point.
I didn’t say EVERY Protestant. . .but there are many out there who do believe this to be the case.
http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/02/16/coptic-christians-not-christians-southern-baptist-leaders-need-reminded/
There are MANY Evangelical, non-denominational Christians who do not think Catholicism is Christianity (Calvary Chapels often share this sentiment). My uncle is one of them, who argues that the persecuted Catholics do not know Jesus.I used to believe Catholicism is not real Christianity. But, while I do disagree with certain Catholic doctrine, I consider it a denomination under Christianity. We share essentials: The virgin birth, the deity of Christ, his death on the cross, and resurrection.
Paul condemns those who would preach “another” Jesus, and especially those who would, after having received the liberating Gospel, seek to bring themselves and other under bondage to the Law again. The Roman Catholic Church does just this in its many, many false doctrines, particularly those regarding Purgatory, the “sacrifice of the Mass”, and salvation by works.
Douglas do some intellectual homework and find this out on your own what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. I am a devout Catholic and I teach this faith that I hold dear. . .here are a few quick Bible quotes to get your started:
1. The church has NEVER taught a works righteous salvation. Never. We do however reject faith alone. Open your Bible and read James 2:14-16
2. Purgatory is simply the “mudroom” of heaven. It is NOT, I repeat NOT a second chance. Only those with a saving relationship with Christ can enter heaven. . .But there are two kinds of sin; mortal and non mortal (1 John 5: 17). We also know that nothing unclean can enter heaven (Rev 21: 27). But there are those whose work goes through a fire (yes “purgatory” isn’t in the Bible, but neither is Trinity, or Incarnation or Rapture) but the idea that the purging of one’s work is seen in 1 Corinthians 3:15.
3. The Sacrifice of the Mass is the memorial of the last supper. It is the Jewish liturgy that Jesus would have participated in as a devout Jew (Matthew 5:17) but where there is no animal, there is one lamb. The lamb of God. And just as the ancient Jewish people had to consume the lamb in order that death “passover” them. ..we consume the Bread of Life that Christ instituted at the last supper. Don’t like the Mass—You are going to HATE heaven—aka Lamb’s Supper. (Revelation 19: 6-9).
God Bless, Douglas, You can find me on Facebook if you want to discuss this in further detail. Everyone THINKS they know what Church teaches, when in fact, they do not. But be prepared. I am married to an Assembly of God elder and I can dance the evangelical dance.
Good job girl.you know your faith.
1) If James taught Faith + Works he would be in direct contradiction to Paul which would make the Bible errant and thus no longer the Word of God – James was in fact basically stating that if you are saved through faith you would produce fruit showing this.
2) 1 Corinthians 3:15…start at verse 1 and see the context, you will find that Paul is specifically talking about the work one does for the Church of God.Salvation is not being judged here, rather the reward for the work one does for our Lord’s Church.
3) The Lord’s Supper is a wonderful privilege for all believers to partake in remembering what our Lord has done for us.
And only our Lord knows the hearts of men, but if you were to ask me, in the end these men chose Christ over their own lives, I see this as the Seal of the Holy Spirit which can only be the work of our Lord in these men, my brothers in Christ.
Purgatory: Although Protestants don’t accept the Book of Maccabees as inspired, it’s a useful historic reference to what Jews believed shortly before the time of Jesus, and in II Maccabees 12:39-46, we see Judas Maccabeus sending a sacrificial offering to Jerusalem in atonement for the sins of those who died in battle while wearing talismans of the idols of Jamnia. This shows that Jews prayed for the dead. if the dead are in Heaven, what need to pray for mercy on their souls? If they’re in hell, what good would it do? Nobody gets out of hell. Revelation 21:27 is very clear that nothing unclean is admitted into Heaven. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches very clearly about Heaven (Mt. 5:20), Hell (Mt. 5:29-30), and Purgatory (Mt. 5:25-26), and that those guilty of mortal sin (Mt. 5:22) are committed to Hell, while those guilty of venial sin (Mt. 5:19) must be purified in Purgatory. In fact, “purgatory” is derived from the Latin word for “purification.” It’s related to the modern English word, “purge.” But certainly “purification” is referenced frequently in both Testaments. On the sacrifice of the Mass, I assume your issue lies with the Eucharist (Greek for “thanksgiving”) and transubstantiation, in which the Host becomes the Body (“This IS my body”) and the wine becomes the Blood of Jesus (“This IS my blood”) offered in sacrifice to atone for our sins, because I’m certain you don’t have an issue with the verses in Acts and the Letters that describe the disciples gathering on the first day to commemorate the Sacrifice of the Lamb as Jesus commanded (Lk 22:19). A description of the order of the Mass from the 2nd century fills out the references to it in the New Testament (see http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm). And Holy Mother Church has never taught the heresy of “salvation by works.”
I believe in God the Father almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into Hell. On the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty. He shall come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. (The Creed is most often recited using the original Greek term “Catholic,” which means “universal”; all who hold to this Creed are Christian).
My dad and mom gave permission for my brothers and me to join neighbor kids going to Wednesday Bible School at a non-denominational Protestant church. It’s one of those churches that sends a bus around town to pick up kids for this. I was 8 years old, my brothers all younger. The pastor greeted us individually, asking if we went to church on Sunday. I said yes, and when he asked which, I told him, “St. Stephen.” He went on to the next kid without saying another word to me. We had to sit through a sermon before the fun and games we went for, and the man actually had the gall to preach against “papists”! I’d never heard the word, had to ask my parents what it meant – they were furious. Now when Dad sees the church bus, he says, “Hide the kids, the Protestants are coming to kidnap them!” It’s kind of a joke, but illustrates the break of our ecumenical spirit from that encounter. He only gave permission because he thought we’re all Christian. If he had known his children would be subjected to an adult’s harangue against their Catholic faith, he never would have allowed it. That pastor told us children we were not Christian, right up there from the pulpit, and ever afterward the other kids in the neighborhood bullied us with taunts, saying we weren’t Christian. It took 30 years for us to heal enough to return to an ecumenical practice (though Dad still jokes about the kidnapping bus). I still face taunting from adult Protestants who say we’re not Christian, but I’m better equipped to deal with it as an adult. The really sad thing is that the Protestant parents who send their kids on the bus don’t go to church, so they have no idea what their kids are being taught.
The Roman Catholic Church, AS AN INSTITUTION, is a harlot and whore, spiritually. It teaches and promote “spiritual adultery”, and only the undiscerning or the lying would not admit to this.
Yes the Church is made up of human members who sin. You are correct. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Douglas. I bet if I walked into your church this morning, I would find folks who gossip, who maybe look at pornography, both sins are against chastity and charity. Common enough sins in this day and age. See, Douglas, you probably also go to some sort of institution yourself. But that doesn’t change the fact that Jesus founded A CHURCH. And it doesn’t change the fact that he founded this institituon on the weakest of the Apostles. . .Peter who sinned, who denied our Lord. Peter who had to be rebuked by Paul. Because God chooses the weak, that’s the way our Lord works, Douglas.
But I find it odd that you presume to be in a place of perfection to cast that first stone against “the whore of Babylon.” Much good as been done in the Church’s evangelizing work. Catholics have done much good. . .Even if you disagree with our theology. Open your Bible, Douglas. (Mark 9: 38 and Luke 9:49)
Did you want help with the plank in thine eye or did you want to discuss whether the apostles founded different liturgical churches and all of them are very similar. How is it that NONE of the ancient, apostolic churches teach what most protestant churches do? Shame on you Douglas,
Douglas you remind me of the Pharisees that were about to stone Mary Magdalene and god simply saved here by a few strong words “who ever is without sin, cast the first stone”. I am coptic orthodox that doesn’t make me perfect. Every institute preaches the good news but unfortunately because we fall short of the glory of god we all tend to sin. You find it everywhere. Stop judging and focus on your own salvation and make sure you don’t loose it due to focussing on others salvation. It’s not your duty. Leave that to god!
Shame on you for being so undiscerning as to promote the obviously false claim that Jesus founded His Church upon Peter. That claim by the Roman Catholic Church has been clearly rebutted for centuries, but that is the only thing they have upon which they can even remotely claim Scriptural justification for being “THE” Church. And that is based on a misinterpretation of Jesus’ meaning in response to Peter, when Jesus says, “You are Peter. And upon this rock I will build my Church.” (Perhaps paraphrased.) The RCC neglects to tell its followers that Jesus is making a play on words here — the Greek word for Peter is “petros”, which means a small stone or pebble; this is in contrast to the Greek word Jesus used for “rock”, which is “petra”, which means a large stone or boulder. The contrast is clear: Jesus did NOT imply that Peter (the “petros”) would be the “rock” (the “petra”) upon which He would build His Church. Rather, Jesus is making plain that Jesus would build His Church upon the foundation of what Peter had just proclaimed, that Jesus is the Messiah.
So, stop defending an apostate organization that can’t even interpret its supposed “founding” Scripture correctly.
Douglas, God bless you. Thank you for allowing me to teach my faith. I love my church more than you can imagine. I love Christ first and foremost, but my passion is to teach people the truth of Catholicism. So thank you so much for allowing me to do this and giving me a forum where I can.
First of all Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.
The Aramaic word kepha is translated petra or petros in Greek. The two words are synonyms in first century Greek. Remember this is Koine Greek and not modern Greek. So Google translate won’t help you here.
Jesus probably said kepha so your point is completely moot because the word is exactly the same. . .(Hebrew is pretty much a dead language, just like Latin is now—only seen in the liturgy) when speaking to Peter. . . But even if he did speak in Greek. . .He would not have said, ‘You are petra, and on this petra I will build my Church’ because that would have entailed giving Simon a feminine name. So it would have been changed to render it masculine. “You are Petros, and on this petra I will build my Church.”
Now it may not make sense to you because of course you reject the Rock, The Church, but Scripture says the church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth (1 Timothy 2:15) But when God changed Abram’s name (Father) to Abraham (Father of Many) it also made no sense to those who had no faith.
But keep seeking Douglas. This Holy Bulwark has been around for 2000 years. Yes, there have been some evil men at the helm. . .but Christ as promised that the gates of hell will never prevail. And never, never, never has she TAUGHT error. This is the key. Just as the human writers of scripture were infallible when writing scripture. . . though men. . . and ALL men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. . .When the CHURCH interprets scripture. . .she too is infallible (BUT ONLY on faith an morals) EVEN when these evil men speak. . .because that is the promise Christ has made. It’s a great mystery. But because Christ wanted to found a Church. And he wanted that those who should seek salvation should be able to find salvation therefore that church should be public and visible. . .This is WHY Douglas, precisely why he CHOOSE Peter. . .arguably the WEAKEST apostle. After Judas the apostle who commits the most sins. . .the one who denies are Lord, who is a hypocrite, who is impulsive, who needs to be rebuked by Paul. . .who lacks faith at times. . .HE is made the rock!!! Why? Because Christ is building a Church that will have a supernatural character that will need a human component, a physical tangibility, we worship in both the spirit and in the flesh and it is in the liturgy that is a full bodied experience. Douglas, come home. Taste and See the Goodness of the Lord in the Most Holy Sacrament. Unless you Eat his Flesh and Drink His Blood. . .read the sixth chapter of John’s Gospel. God Bless You, God Bless you, God Bless you.
@douglasjbender:disqus – It hurts to read your comments. Your attitude is talking so much louder than your words, and it feels hateful. Come on, we are on the same team! https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+17%3A21&version=KJV
Douglas you remind me of the Pharisees that were about to stone Mary Magdalene and god simply saved here by a few strong words “who ever is without sin, cast the first stone”. I am coptic orthodox that doesn’t make me perfect. Every institute preaches the good news but unfortunately because we fall short of the glory of god we all tend to sin. You find it everywhere. Stop judging and focus on your own salvation and make sure you don’t loose it due to focussing on others salvation. It’s not your duty. Leave that to god!nj
Andrew, you remind me of people who have no discernment when dealing with doctrine and truth. I imagine Elijah the Prophet and John the Baptist remind you of the Pharisees as well.
You’ll have to back up your assertion with examples, otherwise it’s like you’re saying, “Yo’ Mama.”
I think the antagonism of the Evangelical towards Catholicism plays a very small, almost unintelligible part in this inertness of the Evangelical towards the anti-jihad. Also, in my Protestant church we pray for the persecuted Christians each service. The congregants are aware they are Catholics. They are also outraged against the Muslims for this. Yet, they, like most Christians, DO NOTHING.
billobillo54: What action would you have Christians take? Are you advocating armed action against these thugs like the Crusaders did when defending Christendom (and yes, they WERE defending Christendom from the onslaught of the Muslims who sought massive conquest) or do you have other ideas in mind? The goals of Islam have not changed-the entire world in subjugation to Islam is still the prize. Will they succeed? No. There will come a time when those who follow Christ and are obedient to God will do so at the cost of their life and many will fall away from the faith, but there will always be a remnant of true believers that Satan cannot destroy. Prayer is certainly a most powerful weapon and a source of strength and rightfully puts one’s trust and reliance upon God to give wisdom, guidance and intervene as He sees fit.
You are so right! Many have already fallen from their faith sadly to say.
My concern in my original post was this: “Almost all Evangelical Protestants I know detest Islam in the most severe manner. Yet, they do NOTHING to oppose the political jihad.” The majority of sincere, faithful, decent, caring, Christians do NOTHING about the political jihad that is being perpetrated in THE U.S. Realizing that Evangelical Christians, according to all research, are the most politically conservative of all Christians (e.g. Obama received around 60% of the Roman Catholic vote in 2008 and around 30% of the Protestant Evangelical vote), they also are the most anti-Islamic of all professing Christians. Why do they not oppose the political jihad IN THE U.S. more aggressively? I was looking for a rational answer to this.
The actions I believe Christians should take, in purely the political realm are the following. Please realize that I believe with my whole heart that faith in Jesus, prayer, preaching of the gospel, acts of Christian love, and faithfulness in the face of persecution are vital and cannot be overstated. However here are the strictly political actions that Christians need to take. I do not believe we will stop the U.S. from becoming a nation in which Islam is normalized and eventually dominant if we do not act politically:
1. Christians must articulate that Islam is a political ideology that is both hostile and incompatible to Western classic liberalism, liberty and tolerance. We must articulate the Islam is similar to Nazism.
2. We must demand that Congress stop all immigration of Muslims into the U.S.
3. We must support a political party that supports #s 1 & 2 above.
4. We will have to have mass demonstrations in the streets against Islamic political ideology.
5. We must maintain our commitment to the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially as it pertains to Muslims and to all people.
6. We must call for groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR and ISAA to be classified as terrorist groups.
7. Christians must assert that counter jihad measures like the Crusades or the War against the Barbary Pirates were noble and just wars that sought to protect the innocent. We must aggressively defend ourselves against the tyranny of DOMESTIC POLITICAL ISLAM.
Didn’t Jesus say that we are like sheep in the midst of wolves? And do you know that sheep are extremely stupid? We had a farm and a river near a farm. They sheep wondered to the river and fell in , the next one fell in and died and so one. Not one was smart enough to put 2 plus 2 together. Jesus said we are ‘sheep’. And people’s nature tends to be lazy, comfortable, to accept a bit more evil today, and some more tomorrow. ‘Even some of the very elect will fall.’ But Jesus has raised up shepherds, like Mr. Ibrahim and others who point the way.
Great point.
For Anglicans and Evangelists instead of “antagonism” try institutionalised visceral hatred.
I think it is only fair that I respond with some data. This is from the Pew Research Organization.
PEW asked the various religious groups (not individuals) to rate each other, again as GROUPS. Here’s how they rated each other (the HIGHER the number the more FAVORABLE the rating):
1. White Evangelicals rating Catholics (63)
2. Catholics rating Evangelicals (58)
Data is nice but temper with some verifiable history
Data points to facts. As Pope Francis said when he appeared on the Protestant televangelist James Robison’s program: “We (i.e. Protestants and Catholics) have all committed evil acts against each other.” The Pope has stated a verifiable fact which you seem to want to contradict. Sola Fide.
Really are you reading the vitriol that I am reading? As soon as the question of religion comes up, it comes out as an attack on Catholicism. And its not two posts in we read that she is the Great Whore of Babylon. As a Catholic, this gets very tiresome.
Two issues are at play here. The first, is anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant sentiment. They both exist in ample quantities from both sides (read all of the posts). I have no interest in this issue other than to say there is plenty of vitriol from both sides. However, this had nothing to do with my question. I asked, “Why aren’t Protestant Evangelicals more involved in opposing the domestic political jihad.” The “domestic political jihad.” They are, according to all research, some of which I cited from PEW, the most conservative, the most anti-Islamic and the most anti-Obama of all demographic groups, yet they do little to oppose the domestic political jihad. The plight of Copts or any other foreign Christians suffering under the brutality of the Muslims has nothing to do with the domestic political jihad. The domestic political jihad is moving along generally unabated by Protestants and Catholics. I wanted to know why the people who are the most likely to oppose the “domestic political jihad” do little to nothing to stop the normalization of Islam in America. Instead I received slanderous and railing accusations from Catholics and atheists against Protestant Evangelicals.
I am married to an Assembly of God elder. I don’t hate evangelicals. I have a Master’s Degree in Medieval Church History. I am a Theology teacher. I KNOW that Copts and Catholics are not the same. But when I posted to the questions, asked, I personally was attacked and so were the teachings of Roman Catholicism. I defended the false accusations. That is all. I don’t believe I posted any anti-Protestant rhetoric, if I did, I apologize. I may have been sarcastic with a particular person who said I was going to hell and that I was part of the Great Whore of Babylon. I tend to use wit against these so-called Christians. Again, I apologize. I will refrain from commenting any longer.
There is no need to apologize. The divide between Catholics and Protestants is wide and historical. The divide is real and understandable. I was raised Roman Catholic and have my undergrad degree from a well-known Jesuit University. So I get it. However, the fact is, that Protestant Evangelical indolence toward the domestic political jihad has nothing to do with Catholicism. There is no relationship between the domestic normalization of Islam and the real antipathy many Protestants have toward Catholicism. Catholicism does not even faintly enter the equation as to why Protestant Evangelicals, who are the most anti-Islamic and politically conservative of all demographic groups, are largely inert regarding opposition to the imposition of Islam in the U.S. One more point. There is no CURRENT native or dominant “Protestant” position on who the anti-Christ, the Whore of Babylon is, etc. Historically ideas on the identity of both have been all over the place, just as they are now.
Sadly, many protestants believe that Catholics are not Christians. A protestant told me that Coptic Christians are not Christians. Who is teaching this falsehood?
According to the Oxford International Christian Encyclopedia, there are over 34,000
different Christian denominations.
We as Christians should stop judging each other and causing more division.
Here is Pope Francis’ comment on the beheading of the Copts, “They were killed simply because they were Christians. It makes no difference whether they be Catholics, Orthodox, Copts or Protestants.
They are Christians”
If all Christians belong to Jeshua Messiah the Son of our Father, Yahweh, what does it matter what denomination we belong to?
Very true. .!!
Love your comment
Tell it like it is.
Hopefully one day they will get it.
Great comment!
I think it is only fair that I respond with some data. This is from the Pew Research Organization. Before I respond to this, I want to remind that I was asking
In the first line you show your ignorance of history, extremely common in Protestantism, when you state that Constantine introduced dogmas into the Church. Probably if Protestants took history seriously,, and if they had a real understanding of the Bible they might realize that they should no longer remain Protestant.
See my above post.
You are responding to the wrong person. Check above again. I did not mention anything about anything you cited. If you would not mind, please debate someone else about an issue that I have NO interest in on this blog….I will copy my original question:
Billobillo. . .Anti Catholicism has EVERYTHING to do with your question. . . The reason they aren’t willing to do anything about jihad is because they see Islam as taking down the Whore of Babylon. .. Rome has been called that here, on this thread. I don’t care WHAT your poll says. . .they can’t ADMIT their hatred. . .but when the rubber hits the road. They view the Church as equally evil as Islam. Sorry, but its true. We’re Gog to Islam’s Magog. They see this as the two evils taking down each other. . .this will result in Israel becoming strong and Jesus returning and came over.
Sorry, I disagree.
From Harry: “Discourse with Catholic doctrines is the same as with Islam/Muslims which proves to be an exercise in futility.”
this is why your co-denominationalists don’t particularly care that Christians are being slaughtered in the Middle East. Many of the Doctrines the Copts share, we share. And don’t tell me there isn’t anti-Catholic vitriol being spewed on this thread. Now I am really done with thread.
The “domestic political jihad” is an asymmetrical war being waged on a variety of stages and in a variety of ways against the “kafir” in the United States with the goal of the political, cultural and social normalization of Islam. My question had to do strictly and narrowly with the “domestic political jihad.” “Domestic.” And, yes if you read all of the posts you will see that there is understandably vitriol being spewed from both Catholics and Protestants. Again, the plight of Middle Eastern or any other foreign Christians has nothing to do with and has absolutely no relationship with the actions or inactivity of Protestant Evangelicals to the “domestic political jihad.” By the way, if you want to do something for Copts and other persecuted catholic Christians in the world you can donate to a Couple Protestant Evangelical based organizations called “Persecution.org.” or “Voice of the Martyrs.” You can also donate to Walid Shoebat’s organization. He and his son Ted are now catholic, if not Roman Catholic. I’ve included a quote from the web page of “Persecution.org:”
Helping All Christians
“We are non-denominational and will assist all persecuted Christians who affirm the Apostles’ Creed and believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. This includes Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox believers. The persecuted church cannot easily afford to be isolated based on denominational differences, and we feel a Biblical mandate to support all who confess Christ as Lord, understanding that there are significant theological differences between denominations and traditions. We acknowledge and accept the differences, but feel we must pull together to support and defend the weakest members of our family. . .the persecuted.”
Do not put words in my mouth!!! I am not a “co-denominationalist”, as I said before…There is only one true religion and that is the individual. the Father with Jesus as mediator and His instruction book. I does not matter what language you read the Bible in, it is still being read through stained glass. Remember…Contempt prior to investigation?
I don’t believe in the trinity, strictly because of what is revealed in scripture. I know that Jesus and the Father have a special relationship, yet are separate existences. Hebrews 1:8-9 twice make this very clear.
I truly felt what my brothers in Christ were facing on their knees while on that beach. Reminded me of Revelation 20:4
Of course this value extends to all life including those who were burned at the stake during the inquisitions and for having a Bible in any other language than Latin.
The point I was trying to make was the futility in trying to get the “moderate” Muslims to see the evil in their books is the same as trying to get a Catholic to see how their doctrines go against the teachings of Jesus Christ
They are Catholics and not Christians because of the doctrines introduced by the false convert Constantine in 325AD creating the Holy Roman Catholic Church, which is nothing more than Roman paganism with a Christian mask. This was the Edomite Pharisees whom Jesus called their father satan way of regaining control. Because some of their doctrines go directly against the commands of Jesus does not mean their eternal salvation is severed because they do believe in John 3:16 and Romans 10:9. Their eternal disposition is between them and the Father. I see these Catholics dying for and calling upon His name as under His grace and mercy and will be included in the ones described in Revelation 20:4 I would encourage every Catholic to compare their doctrines and practices with scripture and the words of Jesus.
Example: Calling a priest Father…
Matthew 23:9 (NKJV)
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
We are called to emulate Jesus. So what was He like in His
sojourn on Earth?
1. He was a revelation of the Father to His children. (Could
see the Father living in and through Him)
2. He set an example of a life lived in obedience to the Fathers will.
3. He was dynamic in to action using the gifts the Father had given Him. (1Peter 4:10)
4. His thoughts were constantly on the needs of others, down
to the last moments on the cross…”Father forgive them for they do not know what they do.”
5. He was constantly in communion with the Father. (Prayer)
Then…
John 14:15
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Matthew 22:97-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
John 15:17
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
Jesus gave us the freedom to love authentically and spontaneously (thinking of another’s needs and serving them) apart form the rules and regulations (Sacraments) that through faith and willingness the Holy Spirit dwells in and moves/works through us that we have no reason to boast.
Why did the Catholic church insert 1 John 5:8 into several later manuscripts?
What is said twice in Hebrews 1:8^9,and what does it mean?
May God bless in your search to know and do His will.
Harry, Your post is too long to address every point. But call no man father: 1 Corinthians 4:15. Whoops! God Bless Regina
1 Corinthians 4:15-16 (KJV – 1611)
15 For through you have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
yet have yee not many fathers: For in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be yee followers of me.
Paul was referring in a physical sense, not a spiritual.
When a Catholic enters a confessional and proclaims “forgive me Father, for I have sinned” this is a spiritual request.
Jesus Himself is the only one who sojourned on earth that the Father had given authority to forgive sins.
May I suggest E-Sword with concordance integrated (KJV+) and Bible Gateway.
Harry, I actually don’t need a concordance, as I own a Greek Bible in the original Greek and am reading for myself, but thanks for the suggestion. But, again your condescension is duly noted. WWJD. But here’s a piece of awkward truth. . .you DO know that priests ALSO have to go to Confession, RIGHT? I mean you KNOW this? And the REASON they do is because they don’t forgive sins. . .GOD does. Even the Pope goes to Confession to another priest. In Latin we call this in persona Christi, or that the priest is merely standing “in the place of Christ.” NOW, if you’d like to get out YOUR Bible (and you won’t need a Concordance. . .you just need John’s Gospel (and yes, your version will just fine): Now open to the 20th chapter. . .Now start at the 21st verse:
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
God Bless Harry, keep searching my dear friend in Christ. You will find that this Catholic, loves Christ passionately, loves Scripture dearly and is madly in love with his Bride, the Church, the pillar and bulwark of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
The perceived condescension may have been an unintentional subconscious reflection of “Whoops!” which is not worthy of the principal to turn the other cheek. WWJD? He would speak the truth no matter what the personal consequences may have been. There is substantial exegesis which omits contempt prior to investigation concerning John 20. You might also note the parallel between the behaviors of the Pharisees and the Catholic church. (Money, rules, works, power and control)
I personally have had the benefit of not being indoctrinated into any religion, for me there is only one true religion…The individual, the Father with Jesus as mediator and His instruction book.
In my initial post I did support the possibility of salvation for the Catholic which would include any gentile based upon the gift of grace provided by faith. Faith born of the heart not of the mind will bring the Holy Spirit to innately manifest in ones actions. Paul and James worked at the same point from opposite ends.
Discourse with Catholic doctrines is the same as with Islam/Muslims which proves to be an exercise in futility.
God Bless
I Just read this and thought of you…
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/27/isis-christians-worse-than-murderers.html
whaat
2 hours ago
And for centuries Christians have used the Bible to justify killing……just say’n……… he who lives in glass houses…………
wormtownspawn
2 hours ago
@whaat
the Christians are still slaughtering thousands in Africa. but our elitist press doesn’t like to mention that
I am sick of being blamed for what the (Roman)Catholics have done.
Real Christians have not harmed anyone following the teachings and examples of Jesus
Real Muslims kill following the teachings and examples of Muhammad.
We need no earthly priest or works, the curtain was torn in two that we may approach the Father (God) directly through Jesus, the blood of Jesus paid it all. John 14:6 stands on it’s own merit.
The Bible is very clear that we will suffer; it has to occur in the ultimate fight between good and evil.
Remember – God has to step in at the end because 2/3rds of the human race is slaughtered and would be totally annihilated if God would not stop it.
Nowhere in the Bible says that Christians will not suffer – contrary, we will suffer greatly due to our own actions such as allowing ‘God’ to be removed from schools etc; abortion of 50 million plus babies, being too meek to rock the boat rather than speaking out loudly in what we defend with our Faith.
They made cowards out of many of us and we have allowed governments, courts, school to be corrupted to the core – creating this exact cancer eating away at our once value based life and enabling this current satanic forces to spread their terror.
Who do you think enabled these jihadist and their cult of islam?
They same governments who sold us out – silencing us while giving them free reign to spread the false god; supported by many churches who forgot to teach their followers the true word of The Bible because they too became greedy and part of this world.
Your points are all legit. However, you did not deal with my question in the slightest degree.
Most of those Christians in middle east including Copts are Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. Most of christians in the west do not know difference between two. They do not consider them as newborn christians, neither Catholic church does accept them. That is why west is not interested to do anything significantly cause there was always divide between orthodox and catholic churches. On the other hand Orthodox christians are divided on 10 independent churches and are not united under one leader like Catholics. So many sees it as long is it not happening to us, we are fine with it.
Your points are legit. However, you did not deal with my question. My question has to do with why the Evangelicals in the U.S., who are clearly the most politically conservative and the most anti-Islamic of all groups including Christians in the U.S., why are they not more involved IN OPPOSING THE POLITICAL ISLAMIZATION OF THEU.S? Please understand. The Evangelicals have higher percentages of politically conservative and anti-Islamic members than Catholics, Orthodox, Jews or any other demographic group. Again, they outpace all groups in political conservativism and anti-Islamic sentiment. Yet, they do little to oppose the DOMESTIC POLITICAL ISLAMIC JIHAD. Orthodox, Catholics DO MUCH LESS. My question had nothing to do with Catholics or Orthodox.
Because most Evangelicals know little to nothing about Islam. How can someone stand against something they are not familiar with? To do so, would truly be ignorance. They need to learn about Islam before they can attack it. To them, it’s just another religion. It would be hypocritical (from their perspective), to take away their freedom of worship while we retain our own. Education on Islam is lacking. My cousin told me she was afraid of Muslims and then recently built enough courage to ask her daughter’s friend (who is Muslim), what Islam is about in relation to what ISIS is doing. Of course this Muslim fed her a biased lesson, telling her that all Sunni Muslims are bad and all Shia Muslims are good.
Yes and no. Evangelicals LEAD all demographic groups in disdain for Islam. Evangelicals outpace Catholics, Jews or “unaffiliated” (i.e. atheists or agnostics) in disdain for Islam. However, you are correct knowledge of Islam is generally lacking. In my local Protestant Church Islam is held in contempt by most. But few, if any do anything in regard to THE DOMESTIC POLITICAL JIHAD.
Yes and no. In my non-denom churches that I have been a part of in So Cal, they discuss Islam and political jihad. Speakers like Walid Shoebat & Brigitte Gabriel have spoken several times. They support Ministries whose focus is on Muslim outreach. Now, comparatively, what few churches do to stand against domestic political jihad surely is not enough. I do not think the majority even know what political jihad is. I am very curious though, what are you doing to stand against political jihad?
A few points: First, I’m glad you mention Walid Shoebat and Bridgette Gabriel. Both are Catholic (Shoebat has converted from Protestant to Catholic). Yet, Shoebat and Gabriel appear on Protestant TV programs more than any other venue. They have never, in my knowledge appeared on a Catholic show. Secondly, I do the following to oppose the political jihad:
1. I call my Congressman several times a week and express, among other things, the fact that I want all immigration of Muslims into the U.S. to be stopped because I believe that Islam is a political ideology that is subversive to, hostile to and incompatible with liberty.
2. I belong to CUFI.
3. I belong to Act For America and attend meetings and sign their legislative petitions that affect the political jihad.
4. I study topics related to the political jihad including the Crusades, The Puritans, The historical foundations of our liberty, Bible prophecy and the history of Muhammad and Islam.
5. I financially support, on a monthly basis missionaries who preach the gospel and provide outreach to Muslims and to Christians within Muslim dominated lands.
6. I contribute to Shoebat’s “Rescue Christians” and to “Persecution.org.”
7. I study the political jihad on Frontpage Magazine, World Net Daily, Raymond Imbahim.com, Shoebat.com, The Religionofpeace.com, Answeringmuslims.com and others and I blog on some of them
8. I teach an adult Sunday school class and incorporate facts or points of interest regarding the political jihad when appropriate.
9. I talk to friends and Christian brethren about the political jihad.
10. I periodically contribute to anti-jihadist organizations (e.g. Shoebat.com; ACLJ
11. I have contributed to World Harvest Church in Columbus Ohio to rescue Sudanese slaves held captive by Muslims. They have redeemed and rescued over 30,000 slaves.
12. I attend functions at the local Jewish Federation that educate on the jihad and on Israel.
13. I have contributed to two Judea/Samarian Israeli cities (Kediemum and Issachar) to help with the cities’ needs and for a security system.
14. I have contributed to Jewish Voice. They have medical and dental and spiritual outreach to Jewish Ethiopians.
15. I have contributed to IFCJ.
16. I help support a poor Messianic Jewish family in Israel.
17. I have provided phone numbers of Congressmen to Church members (and in the bulletin of our church) who usually do not call their representatives.
That is great! 🙂
Like Jesus said: “Even if you have done everything that your Father desires (which I have never done nor has anyone else) you are still unworthy servants because all you have done is everything.” That is why I CLING TO JESUS AND HIS CROSS.
Calling the congressman, if done by all Christians, would be powerful.
SOLIS CHRISTOS
Also: The stuff I do, while more than most, is inadequate unless done by huge numbers. Here’s what needs to be done to thwart the political jihad:
1. Christians must articulate that Islam is a political ideology that is both hostile and incompatible to Western classic liberalism, liberty and tolerance. We must articulate the Islam is similar to Nazism.
2. We must demand that Congress stop all immigration of Muslims into the U.S.
3. We must support a political party that supports #s 1 & 2 above.
4. We will have to have mass demonstrations in the streets against Islamic political ideology.
5. We must maintain our commitment to the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially as it pertains to Muslims and to all people.
6. We must call for groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR and ISAA to be classified as terrorist groups.
7. Christians must assert that counter jihad measures like the Crusades or the War against the Barbary Pirates were noble and just wars that sought to protect the innocent. We must aggressively defend ourselves against the tyranny of DOMESTIC POLITICAL ISLAM.
Political jihad…See, Sharia the threat to America: Team B II Report.
http://shariahthethreat.org
Team B II: Shariah, the Threat to America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEp0wwRSDSw
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/docLib/20100915_Shariah-TheThreattoAmerica.pdf
You question has been asked and answered.
Please do not speak about that which you do not know. You are speaking fallacy. The Catholic Church “does not accept them” is entirely false. First of all “simply” means Universal all orthodox, and liturgical churches are catholic (little ‘C’). Second of all if you are referring to the ROMAN Catholic Church, Roman refers to the liturgy that we use. It is the Latin rite. So of course, by definition, the Coptic Church, using a form of the Alexandrian Liturgy would NOT be a Latin Rite church. Thirdly, The Coptic Church has its own liturgy HOWEVER, they choose to be united to the Roman Church and regard Pope Francis’ bishopric to be preeminent over the bishopric of Pope Tawadros. However, both Patriarchs or Bishops would consider both men to be their brothers and recognize their valid authority each shares. They are brothers. There are some differences in authority, infallibility, and Nicene Creed applications, but for the most part, all orthodox and catholic churches (the ancient liturgical churches) believe in a Sacramental theology that Protestants have rejected for Reformed theology based on Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
It is only in English that the name “Roman Catholic Church” is used. It is sismply called the Catholic Church and that is what it calls itself in official pronouncements.
What you say above is not correct. There is the Coptic Orthodox Church, which is not in full communion with Rome. This goes back to theological problems which derived from the Council of Chalcedon in 451, which defined that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity and at the same time has a complete human nature. This is called “hypostatic union”, union in the Person of the Word or Second Person of the Trinity. Now this doctrine was contested by many, in both Antioch and Alexandria, the latter considering it contrary to the doctrine of their great Faather of the Church, St Cyril of Alexandria. Here there is a difference of interpretation of St. Cyril, who died in 443 and took part in the Council of Ephesus against Nestorius, The denial of the true human nature of Christ is called “monophysism”, “one nature!. They think that somehow inn Christ there is a divine nature, but not a pefect human nature. There are several nuances in this. The doctrine of Chalcedon was the official doctrine of the Byzantine Empire and also of Rome. So, the Copts have that difference with us Catholics. However, at preseent there is a dialogue going on with them and it is to be hoped that an agreement can eventjually be reached, as St, Cyril, their great hero is also considered a great doctor by Catholics and a saint.
If that is not confusing, there is also a Coptic Catholic Church with its seat in Alexandria. It would be too long to explain how they separated from the rest of the Copts, but they have the same traditions, liturgy etc, except that doctrinally they accept the teaching of the Council of Chalcedon and also the Primacy of the Pope.
The notion that the Copts are not true Christians, is “off the wall”, i colloquial terms. The other day Pope Francis celebrated a Mass in Rome for the Copts victims of ISIS, and called the true martyrs, which they are.
ARE YOU SPEAKING TO ME?!?! BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THIS THREAD DEFENDING THE COPTS AS TRUE CHRISTIANS!!!!
I did say there is a Coptic Orthodox Church that is not in Communion with Rome (and one that is), but also that even THAT branch and Pope Tawadros would consider Pope Francis a brother in the episcopate. Even the non Communion with Rome church that I attended had a picture of Pope John Paul II hanging in their vestibule. They pray for reconciliation. As to the reason I avoided certain terms, none of the Non-Chaldean churches wish to be called “monophysite” and I felt it would be disrespectful to do so here. They prefer the term miaphysite. As I didn’t think this was going to be a dissertation on orthodox theology, I felt brevity the better part of discretion. But I find your tone extremely condescending, neverthless, I thank you for schooling me on your Wikipedia knowledge of Coptic Christianity.
Regarding this fight,the ENTIRE DISPUTE REGARDING DOCTRINE, CHURCH AUTHORITY, ETC. IS MEANINGLESS, DIVISIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE (E.G. CATHOLIC V. PROTESTANT V. ORTHODOX V. COPTIC V. ETC., ETC., ETC., AD INFINITUM). So I too, being a Protestant who believes the doctrines of Protestantism and recognizes the real and significant differences in doctrine CONFESS THAT I LOVE MY PERSECUTED ROMAN CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, COPTIC AND PROTESTANT BRETHREN AND WILL FOREVER REFUSE TO GET INTO THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES WHEN DEALING WITH THE REAL AND PRESENT THREAT OF ISLAM. As we participate in the arguing about theology, we are only destroying ourselves. As Ben Franklin stated in the Second Continental Congress in 1775: “If we don’t hang together we shall hang separately.”
I pray for these brothers and sisters every day. I pray for my family as well… I pray for their courage to go boldly. These are the cries of the martyrs from under the Mercy seat asking, “How long?” How long before He who is great and mighty and just to avenge their deaths and of those who went before them. It will probably be sooner than later.
In this fight the ENTIRE DISPUTE REGARDING DOCTRINE, CHURCH AUTHORITY, ETC. IS MEANINGLESS, DIVISIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE (E.G. CATHOLIC V. PROTESTANT V. ORTHODOX V. COPTIC V. ETC., ETC., ETC., AD INFINITUM). So I too, being a Protestant who believes the doctrines of Protestantism and recognizes the real and significant differences in doctrine CONFESS THAT I LOVE MY PERSECUTED ROMAN CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, COPTIC AND PROTESTANT BRETHREN AND WILL FOREVER REFUSE TO GET INTO THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES WHEN DEALING WITH THE REAL AND PRESENT THREAT OF ISLAM.
Faith not “religion” is meant to draw us near to our creator. You are given a set of instructions as to how to live in harmony with others and with that which is around you. If you choose to take that instruction and pervert it, misconstrue, misinterpret, even a jot or tittle. You end up with what we have today.
I am a Christian who believes all of what you just stated very strongly. However, we did not defeat the Nazis in World War II, for example, by arguing about faith. The American War For Independence is a great example. Even though America, at that time was around overwhelmingly Protestant the inter denominational infighting between Protestant sects and against the Catholic patriots (e.g. Charles Carroll, Daniel Carroll, John Carroll, Fr. Pierre Gibault, John Barry,et al) was COMPLETELY ABANDONED in favor of the unity of all for the sake of liberty. Remember this was prior to Vatican II, so these Catholics, if faithful to the Roman Catholic teaching would view Protestant America as completely heretical. Yet, while maintaining their Catholicism they united with the Protestant majority around the blessings of liberty. The squabbling over theology in the context of this fight, AGAINST ISLAM AND AGAINST THE ISLAMOPHILES OF ALL STRIPES IS NAUSEATING AND REPULSIVE TO ME. USE CHRIST’S PARABLE OF THE GOOD SAMARITAN AS AN INSPIRATION. I am as proud of the Crusades, a righteous and defensive war against murderous Muslims as I am of the AMERICAN (PROTESTANT) War against the Barbary Pirates. I see Roman Catholicism and Protestantism both as great examples and outstanding philosophical foundations for liberty.
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qtable.htm
http://www.catholichistory.net/Spotlights/SpotlightFounding.htm
To coin a phrase: You are preaching to the choir. I haven’t any desire to argue denominal politics within faith. I am a Messianic Jewish believer. So I haven’t any argument against the Coptics but, see them as cousins, early followers,brothers and sisters within my own faith/beliefs. Matter of fact I feel drawn to them as oppose to some sects here in the US. I believe that the perpetrators committing the atrocities (and they are) in the ME have used their belief for political power. I believe it will travel here even though so many here in the US feel so exclusionary even untouchable by world events. So I am going to gird myself, my family up with all the amour of God because in the end it’s is all we truly possess in this world and the only possession we take with us when we leave.
Amen. God bless you. In Y-shua’s Name.
true
Large numbers of Evangelicals have been sucked into the Libertarian propaganda. Their cult leader Ron Paul believes Iran is not a threat and has a right to have nuclear weapons as does his son Rand.
These people are brainwashed to believe it is all blowback and to blame America or Israel first.
They are anti war lemmings
The Evangelicals I know and am referring to despise Iran and see it as a threat, despise Libertarianism and are conservatives. They also love Israel and America. First and foremost: they love Christ.
Please forgive what I am about to write but struggle as well: We are not suppose to despite or hate anyone including these savage and demonic jihadists. We suppose to love them showing them kindness as demonstrated by Jesus Christ himself.
I also know it becomes increasingly more difficult to do.
No forgiveness needed. I wrote: “”despise Iran” not Iranians; “despise Libertarianism” not libertarians; “despise Islam” not Muslims; “despise the politics of the left” and not leftists. We are to despise evil and love sinners. That is exactly the attitude of the Protestant Evangelicals I cited. That is the attitude of Jesus, who has a violent, emotional, aggressive and extreme hatred of sin, yet loves sinners. What a great Person.
There aren’t many Christians left in the West…that’s why.
I respectfully disagree. There are many, many Christians. There is no criterion that requires political opposition to domestic political Islam to be a Christian.
I disagree. A christian by default stands opposed to all …ALL evil.
So, a little Saint (i.e. normal believer) who has the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them by faith and exhibits the fruit of the Holy Spirit and who is faithful to the Gospel must participate in the POLITICAL counter jihad? I believe it is expedient and critical, but is this necessary for salvation? I think not.
Sola Fide
Of couse that is not a REQUIREMENT for salvation. We are not saved because of good deeds but we are saved to be good.
Yes all Christians must participate in counter jihad, especially when it is at our door steps.
I agree. They SHOULD.
Glad to see you got some good replies…
I was hoping that you would consider some of the dynamics involved in the seemingly contradictory Protestant position towards Islam and political Islam and write about it: That is, I believe, that among American Christians, Protestant Evangelicals are more likely to have an accurate perception of political Islam, that is, they perceive it as so evil it is of the antichrist and yet in the face of such a perception, they often wax fatalistic or inert.
billobillo54,
I would refer you to the Battle of Lepanto.
I look to the Crusades and the defensive acts by Catholics such as Lepanto as admirable. I also look to the U.S. (Protestant dominated) war against the Barbary Pirates as needed and just.
billobillo54,
The Islamic tide has been turned back twice in the past. The second time was a decisive victory against all odds which led to the institution of the Feast of the Our Lady of the Rosary – i.e., the Battle of Lepanto.
All of Italy prayed the the Rosary for the defeat of the Islamic forces, and they were defeated.
Now, I’m not suggesting that Evangelicals pray the Rosary; as a former Assemblies of God layman, I understand the theological difficulties in such a suggestion.
But can I suggest the daily practice of praying the psalms in an ordered fashion? There are a number of formats for the Daily (or Divine) office which can be followed. Even the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours (ibreviary.net) would pose few, if any, theological problems.
2 Chronicles 7:14
Lou: Thank you. I think you are on to something. Especially 2 Chronicles 7:14. Solis Christos.
It is only thanks to the cruzades that America was discovered by Columbus having been sent by Queen Isabella. Of course, the Spanish Reconquista was declared a cruzade by several popes. The muslims were also stopped at the gates of Vienna twice, in 1529 and in 1683, thanks to the diplomatic efforts of Blessed Pope Innocent XI and his Capuchin Ambassador, who were able to get the heroic King of Poland to attack the 150,000 strong Turkish army and rout it with his 20,00 brave horsemen. They also invoked the help of the Virgin Mary, patroness of Poland, They had already put a stop to the Turks in their attempt to take Poland. So, it is thanks to the Catholic Church, both at Lepanto, also in the siege of Malta in 1565 and of course Vienna, which took place on the 11th and 12th of September of 1683, that all of us are not under the yoke of Islam. now. This was not the first time that a much smaller Christian army routed a more powerful and numerous muslim one. It also happened at the decisive Battle of Navas the Tolosa in Spain in 1212, whose importance it is difficult to exaggerate because it broke the power of muslims in Spain and made way for the final conquest of Granada in 1492, the same year that Columbus put his foot on American soil.
The answer to your question is simply because overwhelmingly ‘churches’ were never part of God’s Word – Jesus Christ was the church – and many churches have led their ‘sheep’ astray with false teaching as stated in The Bible.
It is not the believers fault having trusted their ministers, priests which led them astray from the true gospel.
That is there are so many ‘luke warm’ Christians as described in ‘Romans’ – it is quite sad.
Christians are taught not to rock the boat – contrary to God’s Word – he encourages us ‘courage and speak out’ as Jesus demonstrated during His short time on earth.
Many of us have lost our way; but it’s not too late to go back to what we know that is that we must believe and continue to have Faith in what we know to be the only Truth their is left in this so-called world – God’s Word and God’s Love for us which he promised us that He would not forsake us; His kingdom will come and His Will will be done – Jesus demonstrated for us how to behave, live and carry ourselves. It was His reason for walking this earth to set an example for us to follow.
If you say one thing about the Islam or the Muhammademian followers your shunned outcaste called a bigot and racist, I experience this many times trying to discuss Islam. No one wants to believe that Islam is anything other than a peaceful beautiful loving ideology
Yes, I have experienced this myself. We must help educate our brethren to the fact that Islamic immigration will destroy liberty. God bless you Bro.
Unfortunately many Protestants go on about how Islam needs a Reformation like the Protestant Reformation, but they don’t have history on their side, as Protestantism hardly ever does. With what authority did Luter decide that the biblical canon of the Pharisees was the correct one, or that the Letter of James didn’t belong to the New Testament? The Catholic and Orthodox churches were in agreement on that from for more than 1100 years before he came along. Did you know that he rebelled against -Rome to put himself totally in the hands of German princes. When the peasants or anabaptists rebelled, he considered them too radical and caled on the princes to crush and massacre them Isn’t that simiilar to what the jihadis do? . What about Calvin and his theocracy in Geneva, didn’t that have many similarities with Islam including the tremendous destruction of great artistic works or inconoclasm? What about the civil wars in Germany, France and Holland among other places, all of them promoted by Protestants. In fact, in Holland they began by buring 80 churches. Isn’t that like Islamic jihad? How is it that in Spain, which enjoyed a period of great cultural brilliance when some of the greatest Spanish artists, poets novelists including Cervantes, Velásquez and others, worked and wrote, was saved from any civil strife? To your probable surprise, that was due to the Inquisition,which in any case, was indirectly a derivation of the Reconquista from the Moors? (cannot explain all this here). So, Protestantism and its Reformation hasn’t its hands clean. I am not saying that reform was not needed in the Church, but not what Luther and Calvin, Zwingli and the rest of them brought on. Thanks to Luther’s idea that everyone could privately interpret the Bible, we now have 35,000 protestant sects and growing by the year. Do any of them think that that was what Jesus waanted for his Church? Besides, as for the notion that the Bible is the sole source of truth, where in the Bible does it say that? NOWHERE. As for the notion that somehow the true Church of Christ disappeared, until Luther & Co. came along, how can that be squared with the promise of Christ to be with his Church until the end of time? And if the true Church of Christ didn’t exist when they came along, when did it stop exisitng and how long did it not exist?
I did not get on this blog to argue the about Catholicism v. Protestantism. I converted from Catholicism to Christ via the Gospel years ago. But your first statement is very misleading.
Mr. Ibrahim: Why won’t more Christians in the West aggressively oppose the jihad? I am a Protestant Evangelical and was impressed by the piece you wrote regarding the “Islamic Reformation” as compared and contrasted to the Protestant Reformation. Almost all Evangelical Protestants I know detest Islam in the most severe manner. Yet, they do NOTHING to oppose the political jihad. Once the topic is broached they become fatalistic or excessively pacifistic or otherworldly. I mention this, not only because I am a Protestant who loves the Protestant Church(es), but because the conservative Protestants, again, demonstrate a very high incidence of accurate uncompromising insight as to the extreme evil of Islam and if they could be moved to action would be a formidable social and political force against Sharia.
Martyrdom is the perfection of Christian virtue. Can there be any doubt one is in heaven when one dies for Christ?
I stand in awe. To me, martyrdom is also a great evidence of faith and the grace that spawns it.
Great comment – these 21 men in the pic above having called out for “Jesus Christ’ while being in their our of need – these Coptic Christian Men – are the best examples of true martyrs.
I am agnostic and I see the greatest attribute of a man that I admire: Jesus of Nazareth(his pacifism) being used to destroy Christianity and the west. “turning the other cheek” does NOT work with the conscienceless or the fanatic. I discovered this at an age of 14 and have the scars to prove it. Only Greater violence is respected by Islam and Muslims as everything else is regarded as a sign of weakness. From where do you think that the Communists and the Nazis gained their total disrespect for convention and international law? Islam. Only western might pushed Islam off its pedestal and oil had placed it back there. Time to silence the oil cartels(including those in the west) seek alternatives and crush Islam. Christians may not feel comfortable with me but I am their ally totally as I am to all faiths threatened by Allah. and his scum. Only the sword stopped them before and it is time for the sword again.
I agree.
Michelle – I consider myself a Christian not by any affiliation of a specific church but by me lifestyle and appreciate your comment.
You are correct – but allah (always with lower case) will be around until the end – it is personified in its evil and spread which will be even more enlightened when the ultimate and false ‘lightbringer’ appears in person – the antichrist – taking his seat in the NWO.
We are on the way…….
Christianity is not in favor of pacifism, as it is considered dangerous as is clear from what happened with Hitler in the 1930s. St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas formulated the doctrine of the just war, and the cruzades were for the most part, just and defensive wars. Of course, human nature being what it is, there were some excesses and abuses, but they were minor compared to what was achieved.
I would hope that you would truly study the Gospels and also Christian history, and hopefully be released from your agnosticism.
Christians too need to be well equiped to defend themselves and fight back to save their lives, this is scriptural as some failed to understand
I will never understand how humans can act so inhumanly evil as this pic shows although I know that The Bible is very clear how dark evil is and will continue to ravage – it is the ultimate fight between good and evil; leading to WWIII and Armageddon as foretold in Gods Word. Jesus was very clear when he told his apostles before he too was slaughtered that “they will come for you, slaughter you, accuse you, lie about you, drag you into to court and also kill you – all because of me – but remember this – they did this to me before they will do it to you. Be not afraid for all this has to occur before His Kingdom will come!”
We as Christians are urged to even love our enemies; I personally struggle with that because I can not find one iota of love for these satanic and demonic savages – shown day in and out in their hatred toward Christians specifically; although anybody else not believing in their pagan god allah or mohammad.
The God I love and worship is about ‘Love, Forgiveness” – the contrast could not be stronger.
I know they will eventually come for us – as is foretold – but these dedicated men on this beach being satanically slaughtered on behalf of satan – the ultimate liar and slanderer of God clearly demonstrated by his worshippers here – found the courage in their most needed hour to call out to our Savior Jesus Christ.
So we must muster the courage and do the same, remain true to Christ and keep what we know to be the only truth their is in this world – God’s Love for us – we will be delivered in the end and that is a good thing.
I struggle with having nothing but hate, disgust and vengeance for these demonic forces of islam who did this to these men as well as to thousand other Christians and Jews and pray that I do not be punished for thinking and feeling what I am feeling as I look at this pic in horror feeling so much pain for these men and yet, admire them for keeping their Faith to the end in our Lord Jesus Christ!
Am I’m wrong to feel this nagging hate towards these savages and are I the only one struggling with this?
We are supposed to love our enemies. That does not mean that we should have anything but hatred for evil. God hates sin, yet loves sinners. To wit: Jesus Christ!
The “love” that Christians are commanded to apply is “agape,” not “phileo” type love. Agape is an impersonal (arms-length) type of love in which the norms & standards of the parties involved are not yet compatible. Phileo is personal or rapport-type love in which both parties have compatible norms & standards. God loves us with an impersonal love until we accept Christ as our savior, thus become members of the family of God, and then grow to spiritual maturity so that we are able to “walk” with God in a way that we don’t compromise his righteousness by our thoughts and behavior. A righteous God cannot have fellowship with unrighteous man. Abraham “walked with God” because he first trusted God, then grew spiritually to a point where there was compatibility at a spiritual level. Our relationship with other people must follow a similar pattern.
God commands us to “agape” all people, which means to have a heart free from the mental attitude sins like fear, worry, bitterness, implacability, guilt, bigotry, hatred, etc.; but, in the case of Muslims and other national enemies, we have the biblical authority to either round up and deport them all, or destroy them if they resist. On the other hand, in our contact with them on an individual basis, we have the obligation as Christians to give them an opportunity to receive Christ as savior. That doesn’t mean we turn the other cheek or trust their motives in any way. The point is that we have an obligation to present the gospel to all people, but we also have the obligation to protect our nation by whatever means necessary. A Christian who serves in the military should be the best killer in his outfit. The biblical phrase “Lord of Hosts” is translated “Lord of the Armies.” Muslims are modern-day Canaanites because they follow the Godless ideology of Islam, which is an international para-military Mafia-type crime syndicate with a religious front. Muslims who live in the United States must decide whether to leave Islam or be subject to round-up and deportation. That is what our political leaders should demand and enforce.
Hating Islam is consistent with christian values. it is Islam and not
Muslims that you should hate-for Islam is evil but Muslims are human
beings and neighbors. Muslims just like other humans come in all forms
and manifest their diversity everywhere. they deserve our love but their
Ideology is hateful, vindictive, intolerant, belligerent and virulent.
We must condemn Islam in the strongest terms but encourage Muslims to
see the evil that is Islam. for Islam went haywire the moment Mohammed
was expelled from Mecca. and his Ideology became banditry and conquest.
replacing good with evil, inverting morals and creating a a crime
syndicate of loyal bandits united by a bandits code that we now call
Islam. some speculate that they started banditry to survive but there is
no reconciling the former of Islam Mecca with the new version of
banditry and conquest that emerged at Medina. it was all downhill from
there with the laws of the jungle overtaking the morals endorsed by the
former Muslims of mecca.
even today the Saudi’s and Qataris
practice slavery-for Islam endorses slavery. worst of all, Islam is
static and “Mohammed is the final prophet” implies closure within the
warped world of a single individual. unlike other religions that have
several prophets and reveled seers, Islam is the worldview of Mohammed
confined in his and only vision resistant to change and violent to
criticism and opposition. As a Christian you have the discretion to reject evil and Islam is evil.
Yes, we agree about the need to evangelize Muslims, as well as all other pagans. However, my emphasis is on the equally important need to protect our nation from Islamic ideology, which I believe requires the total round-up and deportation of all Muslims. It is totally consistent to present Muslims with the Gospel, while simultaneously appealing to our political leaders to direct the Department of Homeland Security to deport them. The reason is that the vast majority of Muslims will never become Christians or leave Islam for any other faith. Islam is not just a “religion.” It is an international para-military Mafia-type crime syndicate with a
religious front, which demands of its members a lifetime allegiance to Sharia law, and the total rejection of the U.S. Constitution or the freedom code of any Judeo-Christian based form of government. As I said in a post a few days
ago, “Muslims are modern-day Canaanites, totally incorrigible, brainwashed assassins bent on destroying every aspect of civil society, especially those based on Judeo-Christian principles. Islam is also hopelessly anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, and has thus far been responsible for the murders of over 270 million human beings during its 1,400 year history, and the numbers are growing every day. Islamic ideology cannot be reformed, and there are no “peaceful” Muslims. There are only those who are ignorant of the Koran, but the more they learn, the more seditious and violent they become. ALL Muslims operate at some level of jihad.”
Americans have bought into a false belief that Muslims
are qualified to receive 1st amendment protection. No! ISLAMIC TOTALITARIAN RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENT is the very thing that the founders sought to protect us against. Muslims are all indoctrinated in that tyrannical system, and merely await their numbers to increase, and the right leader to assert control over those of us who are freedom-oriented patriotic citizens. That is Islam’s strategic objective. If we don’t have the spiritual discernment to recognize that fact and start deporting these monsters, God will grant us our death-wish, and allow them to destroy us.
You should be condemning the brutal beheading of human beings instead of entering into a discussion about religious dogma. You see trees and ignore the forest and cry out you are lost. Respectfully.
I remember a time in my childhood when I heard the phrase “my faith is a personal thing,” meaning: I don’t talk about it. I was not raised as a Christian, but had heard enough Bible verses I knew that was not right! I knew then and know now that Christians are supposed to preach and live the Gospel (good news.) Meek and humble yes, however, many, many Christians took that to mean they were supposed to be rugs where men/women walk over. I read the Old and New Testaments through and through when I became a believer and saw mighty and overt works from “meek and humble” men and women, unlike the introverted and “private” believers that I knew about in my childhood. The saying “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” comes to mind. I recommend that every chance you get, read articles on the internet -particularly articles about which you disagree and post your logic and reasonable stances to counter the rampant misinformation that is being intentionally spread by people who are brain-washed and misled by the evil one.
I do that. That is why I am on this blog.
Wonderful. Keep it up.
The Coptic Church is as close to the real Church from Jesus’s time than any others ;including Catholics ,Protestants , Presbyterian , etc. The rest are Fake. thank you,
Lame ass morons, don’t suppose these Christ following twits EVER thought about fighting back, did they?
My point being, if these ISIS thugs ever get to the US and try this shit with me, I’m taking ’em with me, we’ll bleed out together.
I suppose these ‘religious fools’ are thinking “maybe if I don’t resist, maybe if I turn the other cheek, they won’t hurt me”. MORONS!!!
Until America recognizes that Islam is not qualified to receive 1st amendment protection, and until we ROUND-UP and DEPORT ALL Muslims as members of a seditious, para-military, international criminal syndicate, which is a tyrannical religious political system masquerading as a “religion only,” there will be no solution. Muslims are modern-day Canaanites, totally incorrigible brainwashed assassins bent on destroying every aspect of civil society, especially those based on Judeo-Christian principles. Islamic ideology cannot be reformed, and there are no “peaceful” Muslims. There are only those who are ignorant of the Koran, but the more they learn, the more seditious and violent they become. ALL Muslims operate at some level of jihad. They can only leave Islam in order to be free of its compulsions, but when they do, the mob puts a price on their head. Remember, Godfather Mohammad set the precedent. He put “Hits” on those who displeased him. Members of his mob were obliged, and eager to please the false prophet by murdering “apostates” and anyone else who violated Mohammad’s arbitrary code of retribution. That hasn’t changed. Complete DEPORTATION of ALL Muslims is the answer, and that includes U.S. citizens! Qualification for American citizenship requires allegiance to the U.S. Constitution as the supreme law of the land, and especially not Shariah Law, which is an inseparable part of of Islam’s totalitarian government’s tyrannical and oppressive religious civil code. DEPORT THEM ALL, NOW!
They don’t oppose Jihad because they are doing business with the Jihadists.
I enter this thread with trepidation. I am a Jew and cannot address differences among the Christian faith. I can share my own frustration with my fellow Jews who choose not to get involved with the politics of our great country America, even while we allow the world to disintegrate, and our government and some others declare the “terrorists” are not real “Islam.” Radical Islam ( a minority of Muslims, but the emerging controlling faction) is out to conquer the world, killing and terrorizing all who do not submit.
We must call our enemy by its proper name – Evil. And we must join the battle, before it is brought to us and it is too late.
In Judaism we know the L-rd is in control. But we – in the image of the L-rd – have Free Will. We must exercise our free will and enter the battle. The L-rd will be with us.
What we must not do is sit back and leave our fight to the L-rd alone. That is not how it works. We must not rely on miracles. It is our responsibility to merit the love of the L-rd by starting the effort ourselves. The L-rd, if we are deserving, will help us complete the labor for our good.
Shame on USA. Obama administration is actively participating in evacuation of the Middele East from its christians. Obama keeps telling nonsence like : moslims in Egypt were forming shields to protect christians. Did he see this happening by his own eyeys or were told so from his friends the moslimbrothers. Hoe is killing and deporting christians , who is burning their churches, who is kidnappibg and islamising their underaged daughters. If not the moslims then it should be my mother who did all of that.
No wonder Hussein Ahmad Obama claims Islam is religion of peace
Shame on USA. Obama administration is actively participating in evacuation of the Middele East from its christians. Obama keeps telling nonsence like : moslims in Egypt were forming shields to protect christians. Did he see this happening by his own eyeys or were told so from his friends the moslimbrothers. Hoe is killing and deporting christians , who is burning their churches, who is kidnappibg and islamising their underaged daughters. If not the moslims then it should be my mother who did all of that.
No wonder Hussein Ahmad Obama claims Islam is religion of peace
Did you see Jesus Christ intervene to stop these murders. You did not. It builds strength of character to allow someone to murder you for your faith. Christianity has become a religion of wimps. It is so Christ like to die for your faith, just like the wimp that HE is. The “fact” that HE created the universe is presently in grave doubt. HE cannot keep HIS own, who love HIM, from being murdered. HE loves unbelievers more than HE loves HIS own. That is the greater fact of reality, at this time.
It is hard to get excited about ANY religion, christian, muslim or otherwise. Religion is, really, the opium of the people.
Islam will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of
Jesus Christ. I really do not give a
hoot about political correctness. The Q’uran is a corrupted work of the devil
and Allah was a sun god. Meaning not
real.
Arabs are among the most stubborn and hard hearted people,
ever. They continue to want a jihad against
Israel but God always fights for Israel.
When Jesus comes Syria, Iran, Palestine, Iraq, Turkey, Russia will all
be fire-stormed out of existence. The
judgement that Jesus lays upon Islam will be so brutal that even the elect will
be perplexed how a God of Love could exercise such brutal judgement but He
will, trust me He will. The Day of the Lord will be the very worst day on the planet,
ever.
Hatred for Israel is increasing. Support from allies is waning. The IS terrorists gloat along their merry way
killing God of the Bible’s people, in the name of a false prophet and false
God. This day will come like a thief in
the night and men will tremble and die from fear.
Zechariah 12:
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all
the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and
against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone
for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces,
though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Matthew 21:44: And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall
be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with
astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the
house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of
Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and
the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to
destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the
inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they
shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one
mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is
in bitterness for his firstborn.
Ezekiel:
38 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog,
the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against
thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws,
and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of
them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and
shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with
shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the
north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all
thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years
thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is
gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been
always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell
safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be
like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with
thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that
at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil
thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled
villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them
dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand
upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are
gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in
the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all
the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil?
hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold,
to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus
saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt
thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north
parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great
company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a
cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee
against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in
thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have
spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in
those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall
come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up
in my face.
9 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I
spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of
Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the
heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon
the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at
my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall
fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my
mountains, saith the Lord God: every man’s sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with
blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people
that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and
brimstone.
23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I
will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the
Lord.
Joel 2:20: 20 —But
I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a
land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder
part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour
shall come up, because he hath done great things.
Joel 3:
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall
bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down
into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people
and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and
parted my land.
3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a
boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon,
and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye
recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own
head;
5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have
carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem
have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their
border.
7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have
sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand
of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people
far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate
wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have
shed innocent blood in their land.
20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from
generation to generation.
21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed:
for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.
Matthew 21:44: And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall
be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Muslims convert or see your nations destroyed and laid
waste. Fat chance even 10% of Muslims
will convert and these are doomed. This is your fate. And when the day comes to
assault this earth—you will be at the center of God Almighty’s wrath.
I object to someone calling a person ” they are a so called Christian “. If someone says they are a Christian Regina (in one post you said this ) then respect that and you can still disagree. There are going to be in name only Christians in every faith and some that are truly BORN AGAIN Christians as the Bible says we must be born again. What we need to do is FIGHT AGAINST the religion that is trying to destroy us and sometimes I think the media / politicians who are joining in .. Islam is growing ,taking over Europe and England AND they certainly are here in the USA..
hail satan
Satan <3