By Enza Ferreri
Only a few days ago one of the best known figures of the Italian counter-jihad, Egyptian-born journalist Magdi Cristiano Allam, a former Muslim who converted to Catholicism, announced that, although he remains Christian, he has left the Catholic Church.
In his column in the daily paper Il Giornale he gave several reasons, prominent among which is “Because this Church is weak vis-à-vis Islam”:
What more than anything else drove me away from the Church is its religious relativism, in particular the legitimization of Islam as true religion, of Allah as true God, of Muhammad as true prophet, of the Koran as sacred text, of mosques as places of worship. It is genuine suicidal madness that John Paul II went so far as to kiss the Koran on May 14, 1999, Benedict XVI put his hand on the Koran praying toward Mecca in the Blue Mosque in Istanbul on November 30, 2006, while Francis I began by extolling the Muslims “who worship one, living and merciful God.” On the contrary I am convinced that, while respecting Muslims who, like all people, possess the inalienable rights to life, dignity and freedom, Islam is an inherently violent ideology, as it has historically been conflictual inside and belligerent outside. Even more I am increasingly convinced that Europe will eventually be submitted to Islam, as has already happened from the seventh century to the other two sides of the Mediterranean, if it does not have the vision and the courage to denounce the incompatibility of Islam with our civilization and the fundamental rights of the person, if it does not ban the Koran for apology of hatred, violence and death against non-Muslims, if it does not condemn Sharia law as a crime against humanity in that it preaches and practices the violation of the sanctity of everyone’s life, the equal dignity of men and women, and religious freedom, and finally if it does not block the spread of mosques.
This news has attracted national and worldwide media attention, just as the announcement of his conversion from Islam to Catholicism on 22 March, Easter Eve night, 2008 did, when he “received Baptism, Confirmation and Communion in St Peter’s Basilica from Pope Benedict XVI”.
Allam’s position has several Italian (and international) counter-jihad blogs sympathetic to it, carrying articles with titles like Islamic Fundamentalism and the Impossible Dialogue.
But his new decision to leave the Church has also attracted many criticisms in Italy. Journalist Filippo Savarese: “I do not know what could be worse than repudiating one’s conversion for (alleged) issues which are in fact mostly ‘political’.” Politician Maurizio Lupi who was Allam’s godfather: “I am sorry, but Christianity taught me to love the freedom of every man and to respect it even when I do not agree with his choices. In this case not even with the reasons (we are Christian for love of truth not for aversion to Islam), but I notice that, unfortunately, this is the attitude of many who say they accept Christ but not the Church.”
Gabriele Satolli, candidate to the 2013 Italian general election for the party founded by Allam, Io Amo l’Italia, left the party, called Magdi’s motivations “raving, and therefore impossible to agree with.”
Still, although we may dispute whether they are a good enough reason to leave the Catholic Church, Allam’s arguments are grounded in reality.
“Having a dialogue” is by definition a reciprocal verb, as “being a sibling.” They mean something only if what is true of the subject of the verb is also true of the object, be it a quality, relationship or activity. When a call for dialogue is not met with a response, it is a monologue.
As Raymond Ibrahim points out, the Muslim countries with some of the worst records on their treatment of Christians are also the most interested in interfaith initiatives in the West:
Few things offer surreal experiences as when Islam and the West interact—when 7th century primordialism encounters 21st century relativism. Consider the issue of “interfaith dialogue.” In principle, it is a decent thing: Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others trying to reach a common ground and professing mutual respect. But what does one make of the gross contradictions that emerge when a human-rights violating nation calls for “dialogue,” even as it enforces religious intolerance on its own turf?
Enter Saudi Arabia. Birthplace of Islam, the Arabian kingdom is also the one Muslim nation that regularly sponsors interfaith initiatives in the West—even as its official policy back home is to demonize and persecute the very faiths it claims to want to have an interfaith dialogue with.
There are different positions within the Catholic Church with regard to Islam, with a minority of voices, some of which are powerful, dissenting from the official stance.
The two positions at the extreme opposites are exemplified by the late Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, who was Archbishop of Milan, and Cardinal Giacomo Biffi, Archbishop of Bologna.
The former is credited with having anticipated many bishops of Italy and Europe in stretching out an acquiescent hand towards Islam. As early as 1990 he dedicated his Saint Ambrose homely to “We and Islam.” In 2001, after 9/11, his Saint Ambrose homely had a title that substituted a clear stance with a list of concepts: “Terrorism, retaliation, self-defence, war and peace.”
On Islam, the most difficult issue of the decade, as well as on many other questions, Martini’s position has always been the search for a grey area, a balancing act: “We have to prevent the dramatic scenario of a clash of civilizations,” qualified by “We must not delegitimize the right to self-defence from terrorism and the need to extinguish its hotbeds.”
It is interesting how, replicating the ideological and political alliance between Islam and the Left in the Western lay world, Cardinal Martini, considered a progressive and constantly praised by the mainstream liberal media, was after his death eulogized by the leftist newspaper La Repubblica for having approved of policies ranging “from dialogue with Islam to yes to condoms” and because “he had never condemned euthanasia.”
Writer and blogger Antonio Socci thus sums him up rather unfavourably: “Everything imposed by ideological fashions found Martini open to dialogue and to all possibilities: ‘there is nothing wrong in two people, even homosexuals, having a stable relationship and in the State favouring them,’ he had said.”
At the other end of the spectrum is Cardinal Giacomo Biffi. As early as 30 September 2000, before 9/11, when not many people in the West worried about Islam at all, he delivered a speech at the Fondazione Migrantes seminar, “On Immigration”. The following [translated from Italian by the author] is what he said on Muslim immigration to Italy and Islam:
The case of Muslims
If we do not want to evade or censor realistic attention, it is apparent that the case of Muslims should be treated separately. And it is hoped that political leaders will not be afraid to face it with open eyes and without illusions.
Muslims – in their vast majority and with few exceptions – come here determined to remain alien to our “humanity”, individual and social, in its most essential, valuable, “secularly” non-renounceable aspects: more or less openly, they come here determined to remain substantially “different”, waiting for us all to become substantially like them.
They have different eating habits (not in itself a big problem), a different holiday in the week, a family law incompatible with our own, a concept of women very far removed from ours (going as far as practicing polygamy). Above all, they have a strictly fundamentalist view of public life, so much so that the perfect identification between religion and politics is part of their unquestionable and inalienable faith, although they prudently wait to become predominant before imposing it. It is therefore not the Church, but modern Western states that must think carefully about this.
I shall say more than that: if our state seriously believes in the importance of civil liberties (including religious) and democratic principles, it should work to make them more widespread, accepted and practiced at all latitudes. A small tool to achieve this goal is the request of being given a not purely verbal “reciprocity” by the immigrants’ countries of origin.
In this respect the Italian Bishops Conference wrote in 1993: “In many Islamic countries it is almost impossible to adhere to and freely practice Christianity. There are no places of worship, non-Islamic religious events are not allowed, not even minimal ecclesiastical organizations exist. That raises the difficult problem of reciprocity. And this is a problem that affects not only the Church, but also civil society and politics, the world of culture and even international relations. For his part, the Pope is tireless in asking everyone to respect the fundamental right to religious freedom” (n. 34). But – we say – asking does not help very much, even if the pope cannot do any more.
Although it may seem alien to our mentality and even paradoxical, the only effective and not unrealistic way to promote the “principle of reciprocity” by a really “secular” state, truly interested in propagating human freedoms, would be to allow for Muslims in Italy only the authorization of institutions which Muslim countries actually allow for others. […]
Conclusion
In an interview ten years ago, I was asked with great candor and with enviable optimism: “Are You among those who believe that Europe will either be Christian or cease to exist?” I think my answer then may well serve to conclude my speech today.
I think – I said – that either Europe will become Christian again or it will become Muslim. What I see without future is the “culture of nothing”, of freedom without limits and without content, of skepticism boasted as intellectual achievement, which seems to be the attitude largely dominant among European peoples, all more or less rich of means and poor of truths. This “culture of nothingness” (sustained by hedonism and libertarian insatiability) will not be able to withstand the ideological onslaught of Islam, which will not be missing: only the rediscovery of the Christian event as the only salvation for man – and therefore only a strong resurrection of the ancient soul of Europe – will offer a different outcome to this inevitable confrontation.
Unfortunately, neither “secularists” nor “Catholics” seem to have so far realized the tragedy that is looming. “Secularists”, opposing the Church in every way, do not realize that they are fighting against the strongest inspiration and the most effective defence of Western civilization and its values of rationality and freedom: they might realize it too late. “Catholics”, letting the knowledge of the truth they possessed fade in themselves and replacing apostolic anxiety with pure and simple dialogue at all costs, unconsciously pave the way (humanly speaking) to their own extinction. The only hope is that the seriousness of the situation may at some point lead to an effective awakening both of reason and of the ancient faith.
It is our hope, our commitment, our prayer.
Written in 2000. All predictions confirmed. Truer, if possible, now than it was even then.
Enza Ferreri is an Italian-born, London-based Philosophy graduate, author and journalist. She has been a London correspondent for several Italian magazines and newspapers, including Panorama, L’Espresso, La Repubblica.
If Islam is so bad, then why is it the WORLD’S FASTEST
GROWING RELIGION! It is also one of the youngest religions. However no matter
how hard everyone tries to give Islam a bad name, it will be twice as more
populated. So let’s get straight to the point yeah?, Basically Islam is the most
hated religion I don’t know why hmm maybe because it is also the most fastest
growing religion and 2nd largest but no one will be able to stop this religion
from growing.
Islam is the fastest growing faith in Britain. Hundreds and thousands of
Brits are reverting to Islam. By the middle of this century, over half of Brits
would be Muslims.
“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of
its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to
possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which
can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man
and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the
saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the
dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems
in a way that would bring it the much
needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad
that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to
be acceptable to the Europe of today.” [G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM,
Vol.
No. 81936.]
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Your first paragraph was all I read.
“If Islam is so bad, then why is it the WORLD’S FASTEST
GROWING RELIGION!”
Being threatened with death if you don’t convert tends to produce more converts – at least in number, if not sincerity.
Having a slew of wives tends to help increase the number of Muslims as well.
“However no matter how hard everyone tries to give Islam a bad name…”
What idiocy. Other people are giving Islam a bad name? It’s not Islam’s child rapist, warlord prophet Mohammad giving it a bad name? It’s not the Koran and hadith with their relentless passages of instructions for Muslims to oppress and MURDER unbelievers that is giving Islam a bad name? It’s not the example after example after EXAMPLE of riots/murders over cartoons, so-called honor killings, “marrying” of little girls to old men, entire countries where women can’t do so much as freakin’ DRIVE – all of this and more – it’s not THESE things giving Islam a bad name?
Ridiculous.
I WILL NOT SUBMIT.
If you study Islam, you can only come to the conclusion that it’s beautiful.It’s very true that some muslims who are only muslims because they were born in a muslim country and hardly know anything about their own religion make Islam seem bad.The prophet said to ignore people who try to provoke you, don’t kill innocent people.Women have a lot of rights in Islam.If they don’t get them, they have a right to fight for them.And … there is no compulsion in Islam.
It’s remarkable how you can sit there and write such lies.
I have studied your religion. It’s not beautiful.
It teaches I, as an unbeliever, must submit, convert or die. It was started by a child rapist. It teaches women are less than men.
It does nothing but oppress and bring misery EVERYWHERE it is practiced.
Do not treat me like I’m stupid. I know your blood cult and I loathe it with all my heart and soul.
I will NOT submit. Know that.
If you want nothing to do with it, it’s your own choise, but if you really want to know about Islam, you should study the sources of Islam, instead of letting Islamofobic networks give you their twisted view about it.
I know all about your intolerant, hateful, violent, perverse “religion”.
Notice how you don’t deny anything I’ve said.
Quran (9:29)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234
“Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house.
I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw
some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s blessing and a good luck.”
Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at
that time I was a girl of nine years of age.”
Lies, taqiya is what weak minds submit to. The fastest growing group of idiots on the planet. Islam is not a religion, it is a social control mechanism based of threats, terror, murder and ridiculous promises. The power elite use this “religion” to control the masses. False piety and feigned generosity are used by these elitists to convince their sheeple that they are good and just people. All the while they sodomize non-muslim women, and men; drink and eat gluttonously all manner of alcohol and PORK when they are out of the eyesight of their lemmings.
I have lived among these vermin, in America, in Europe and in their homelands. They believe they are superior. I have proven on many occassions they are not…in any way superior.
Mr. 2gajemee2, You are either a liar or a brainwashed fool.
Your pathetic “prophet” was foretold of in the Christian Bible. We know of him and we know he is a FALSE PROPHET. We believers of the Book are not fearful of your kind. We know you are bound for Hell’s gate and shall remain there eternally.
You can bring it all you want. We shall overcome and your fte will be eternal. Have a nice time in Hell.
Very TRUE Mo86
I know this had 2 years but, I just wanted to post a reply.
The problem with all relegions is not the relegion itself, but it’s people, that’s a thing.
Islam doesnt tell muslims to kill those who don’t convert, it tells to use the best way to convince them (wich means, non violent way), if they don’t convert, they’re free to warship whatever they like, we all know that you can’t building a relegion by forcing people into it, it just don’t work.
In the history of the arab world, this happened many time, forcing people to enter Islam, same thing happened in Spain by christian to muslims and jews, it’s a political matter, it have nothing to do with the relegion itself.
I know my relegion very well, how do you think islam reached asia? It didn’t spread there by the sword, but by commerce and the good manners of the muslim merchants and their high moral values that touched those people and made them want to know more about those strangers who are muslims (Malysia, philippine, etc…).
Racial problems and descrimination problems happened everywhere many times in history, you can’t associate that to relegion, but to human greed and wish to control everything.
There have been times when the islamic world was one of the most advanced civilisation on earth, they came up with novel ideas (such as evolution, yes, darwin wasn’t the first) and many other contributions, low poverty levels, etc.. but good things don’t last for ever.
After all those good ages, the islamic world started to live it’s final phase of prosperity (pleas read the book Al-Mukadima by Ibn Khouldoun, the founder of the history and social studies as we know today, it talks about the phases of civilisations, creation, growth, prosperity, the decline, the collapse), rulers wanted more power, more wealth, more leasure and fun, and forgot about the important matters, eventually, the islamic world have been divided, and they started to fight each other, and gradually, it became as it is today, divided, poor, in chaos, etc… We are living our own dark ages.
Meanwhile, when the Islamic civlisation started to decline, Euope just strated to rise, beneficing from all the knowledge that have been passed to them threw muslim spain at that time, wich was one of the great hubs of science, jews, christians and muslims worked side by side in universities and everything, it was the gate to europe.
We can say the same story about Asia, creation, growth, prosperity, decline, collapse, another creation, and so on, it’s the age of civilisations, civlisations just like people, have ages, you can’t compare the founding generations, and the geneartions that built the country, to those generations born in wealth and leasure, that have no sense of responsability or desire to struggle like their parents and grand parents did to build their country and families, a live example for that, is South Korea, it have had a magnificient growth for the past generations, but the newer generations became more inclined toward leasure and playfullness than struggling to build more, things can change when the right decisions are made, and I have a big trust in South Korea, it fell twice to bankrupcy in 50 years, and it just rose from ashes to be an even stronger nation.
We all hate falling, but sometimes, falling can make you stronger and puts that desire to rebuild and build better than ever before.
Sorry for this long text, but the bottom of line, the problem is not relegion, the problem is the human society and human psycology, the desire for power, wealth, and all of the easy things in life.
And I salute you with salutation of Islam, Al-Salam Alaykom, may peace be upon you.
Maybe you should try answering what the previous poster quoted from your Koran:
Koran (9:29)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
BTW, this is also what ISIS is quoting in their videos when beheading Christians.
Yes, those verses are correct, but in the Quran, you have to take the verse in it’s full context.
While that is true, it is also said that one should always avoid violence and blood spill unless there is no other way. You should watch this video of TED (the presenter is Jewish, or an ex-Jewish, not sure)
Also Fighting can be in many ways, like doing charity, helping people, teaching people about your religion, etc.. during the first years of Islam, when the first muslims were being persecuted, they fought a war against their persecutors, and when the war was finished, the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) told them that the small Jihad is now complete, but there is still the greater Jihad (the bigger Jihad, in other words, way more important than the small Jihad and much harder), they were all surprised, I mean, war is a difficult and ugly thing, what can be harder than that, he told them, it’s the Jihad of the self (Jihad means struggle), to improve your self and to stop your self from running behind lust and greed, the struggle to spread peace and establish justice.
BUT, Islam DO allow to fight as you just said and showed in that verse, but only as a last resort, and when fighting (i.e.: war) it’s forbidden to kill a civilian (an unarmed person), a child, an old person, or even kill a tree or an animal without reason, also destroying buildings and attacking worshiping places are forbidden (Churches, temples, etc…) When Salah Al-Dine invaded Jerusalem, he didn’t kill a one single civilian, and allowed everyone to choose between staying and paying jizya and live and practice their relegion freely (Jezia=a tax, it’s up to the ruler to decide how much, it doesn’t have an exact amount, for most of the history it have been 20, while at the time of the prophet it was 1 Dinar per year, almost a symbloc tax, nothing much, so here comes politics, killing them is not okay, and the law punish the killer just as anyone else) or leave safely, while when “Christians” attacked, they slaughtered almost every single person, they made a movie about it.
Also hostages must never be harmed, and must be treated in a good way, it’s forbidden to kill a messenger or someone who calls for peace, or someone who surrenders, in the time of the prophet, a military general was punished and fired from the duty for killing a solider that surrendered (I’m sorry I don’t remember exactly, who and when exactly).
So fighting, is intended as fighting a country, it’s military ONLY.
What ISIS is doing, is taking some verses, and stopping there, do you know who are the victims of ISIS? Muslims, children, women, civilians (whole cities and infrastructures), they are even destroying historical buildings of some prophets (that both Muslims and Christians believe in) they are deleting the history of that area, ruins and statues that lased for thousands of years and under the whole history of Islam, are being destroyed, ISIS is an organisation made by some “western” power (I don’t want to say who, I may be wrong, but we all know who are they) to destroy the region, who is the biggest winner of all of this? Israel.
And almost all muslims agree that ISIS does not represent Islam, ISIS are called “khawarej” or “outsiders/people who broke away, people who went away from the path of Islam/etc..) and they have been around since the first centuries of Islam, they killed alot of people, they say to everyone who doesn’t look like that they are infidels, the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) said a Hadith about them, they are a sign of end times, and many of them have been fulfilled, but that doesn’t mean that the end is in few years, it can be in few years, decades, hundreds of years, or thousands of years, http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1043604/pg1
Btw, we beleive in Jesus (pbuh) too.
And btw, the bible does have many verses worst than you think:
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
etc…
Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse. Because the Muslim world is conflicted on the principle of abrogation, it’s not hard for ISIS and other extremists to convince many Muslims their particular ‘extreme’ interpretation is indeed the true Islam, and they can quote the Quran and Hadith to support their interpretation.
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir) for an understanding of abrogation. Q 9:29 cancels virtually all verses calling for patience or forgiveness toward Christians and Jews.
Also, I believe you copied and pasted from the wrong surah in your other reply. It should be from the 9th not the 2nd surah.
The new testament is at odds with the violence of the old testament. Many parts of the old testament are no longer relevant, and have been fulfilled in the teachings of Christ. Circumcision and the various food laws are some examples.
Jesus Delivers the Adulterous Woman
…6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. John 8:6-7
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
Oh sorry about that.
These two that you linked in Wikipedia actually confirms what I said (sorry I didn’t read all of it), because the Quran was sent on a period of 23 years, and in those 23 years, there have different situations and at each situation there have been a new revelation related it.
While Quran does permit to fight unbelievers, it also prefers not to (inles they attack first then you must defend yourself, and only according to the law of war that I mentioned earlier, you can find alot about this if you make a little search about it), also it says to choose the best way and to talk to people with the language and logic that they understand, so it’s better to use the peaceful ways, as spilling blood is a very serious thing in Islam and should be avoided when possible.
So in different situations, you have different ways to act, and that can be based on history and hadith, we certainly CANNOT ignore all the peace verses (which are a lot more than those ordering to fight) and peace hadiths, as I said earlier, Quran is a one book, not several, it have to be dealt with as a one book, so if you have verses ordering to fight and kill unbelievers, you have also to keep in mind the other verses that talks about peace and mercy on unbelievers (btw, Christians and Jews are considered believers in Islam, Christians are considered “Mushrikin” plural of “Mushrik” (not infidels) , it means those that believe in other forces beside God, like believing in many Gods or in a trinity, which is a sin, coptic Christians in Egypt and the Christians in Arabia used to believe in one God only, no trinity, they used to say I bare witness that there is no god but God and Jesus(pbuh=peace be upon him) is hes messenger, muslims says the same thing but say Mohamed(pbuh) is hes messenger).
Also there is many examples of the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) in hes daily life with Jews and Christians, later on, there’s the example of Salah Eddin who didn’t kill citizen or royalty when he conquered Jerusalam while when Christians did that they killed everyone (including Jews), also Jews have been living peacefully in the muslim world for centuries where they were persecuted in Europe, and even worked as ministers sometimes, it was only intell the establishement of “Israel” that they left, there are tones of historical and archaeological evidence for that, from houses to shop, cemitries, etc.. we used to have churches and synagogs in Kairouan (1350 years old) in Tunisia, but France destroyed them during the colonization, there have been also thousands of jews, they also had alot of cultural contribution in many arab countries, they were just considered as everyone else, equal, many jews actually say the same thing, including PALESTINIAN jews who are btw persecuted by the zionists of Israel.
So Islam DO allow to fight unbelievers but under certain rules(no killing children, women, elders, animals, prisoners and you have to treat them good, no destruction of buildings or plants unless needed, a modern example is in Canada, after the ending of the world war prisoners of war in Canada in camps refused to leave and go back home because they were treated well, what does that tell? It’s a huge benefit for a country to get loyal people, now compare that kind of war where no citizen is harmed, to the modern war, I don’t need to give ANY examples for that really), BUT it prefers peace and to try to make people embrace Islam by doing good deeds and speaking in a good manner (and most converts to Islam convert because of that, not sword, you can NEVER convert someone by the sword, he’ll just pretend to be muslim but never will believe, it have no benefits at all for the expansion of religion, and it can put poison if I may say, in religion and between people if these fake muslims start spreading lies to cause conflict and etc… for revenge, to seek their freedom of religion, etc.. many reasons, it can be dangerous for a country to sunstain itself with conflicts like that).
You have many possible ways, some ways are for a certain situations, and you have advices not to use violence, and if you do, there are strict rules that must be followed.
Ages change, and the ways change with it, but the principles to favor peace is always the same, I think there is alot of examples from history (tons of them, alot more than the violent examples).
In few words: War is bad, peace is good.
But I have to agree with alot of what you said about what extremists can do, that’s why a muslim have to be well educated about hes relegion so he or she don’t fall for that.
Seeking knowledge (Religion AND science) is an order in Islam, it’s a must for every muslim man and woman.
About the Naskh, as far as I know, is looking for a solution of a problem based on the Quran and hadith (wich contains history and the sayings of the prophet Mohamed pbuh), some hadith can be false and not actually said by the prophet, so they are studied and they see if they contradict the Quran or not, if they does, they are dismissed, if the person or the source who narrated does not have a good reputation but it doesn’t contradict with the Quran, it considered a weak hadith, etc.. in the end of line it all goes back to the Quran to see if it contradicts it or not, it’s the only text that remained unchanged for 1400 years, there are ancient manuscripts to prove that.
So to resolve that problem, they go back in history and see some examples and how the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) acted and what were the revelations in that situation, do you seriously think that Islam can spread that far with just the sword when Arabs weren’t very numerous and could have been crushed very easily by Berbers, Syrians, Phoenicians, Romans, Persians, etc…
So no matter how you go around it, the main thing is to be peaceful with unbelievers EVEN if they insult you, it’s the best way to go, but exceptional situations can have exceptional solutions, also fighting unbeliever doesn’t include killing the citizens, it’s a matter of state not the average person to decide, so how you do is, try to convert non believer to Islam, and IF they fight you physically, then you can attack as an act of self defense (according to the laws of war above), and that actually happened many times in history, people who insult you don’t need to be attacked (like that magazine in France, it’s better to ignore them and they’ll just go away, if you give them an importance they will feel victorious and they’ll continue at their mockery even more, which is not good, in the time of the prophet pbuh, many unbelievers converted for that kind of act alone.
P.s.: In Islam, not all non-muslims go to hell, and not all muslims go to heaven, (I don’t know about non-believers = atheists, it says that they go to hell, but God is merciful and forgive, that means only God can judge).
I hope that I have been helpful and informative, I tried to detail the best I can about this, this is what I know and this is what I was taught all my life 🙂
Sorry if what I typed is too long, I hope that you take your time 🙂
The Verses of War
The words that often causes consternation among those unfamiliar with Islam, is:
“…and slay them wherever ye catch them…”
The truth is that this is only part of the verse 191 of Chapter 2 of the Qur’an. Let us read the verses 190 to 191 in order to get a complete picture:
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:190-191]
It is a well-known fact of Islamic history, that fighting against aggressors was prohibited during the first thirteen years of the Prophet’s mission. After Muslims migrated to Madina , the verses above were revealed to enable the community to fight in self-defense. The verses that follow clearly indicate Islam’s prohibition on aggression and inclination towards peace:
“But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:192-193]
The verses above specifically refer to fighting against oppression and in defense of religious freedom as the Glorious Qur’an says:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion”
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]
Fair-dealing towards all
When read in context, the above verses do not even remotely suggest an exhortation for Muslims to be vicious or hateful towards people of other faiths. Far from this, the Qur’an actually requires that Muslims conduct themselves with fairness and dignity in all matters, and especially in regard to interfaith relations, as indicated by the following verse:
“Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
[Al-Qur’an 60:8]
When dealing with Quran, you must ALWAYS take the verse in it’s context, in it’s Surah, etc… you must read the surah as a whole, not just a single verse, also the other Surahs and verses from the Quran must be taken in consideration, they all complete each other, there are some verses that says to fight, and other verses that says not to fight, etc.. they’re not contradicting each other, but completing each other, like a book of law, if there’s a law in it, it must be applied in a way not to go against the other laws.
That’s why, you need a scholar to explain some of the questions, you may be able to understand the Quran by yourself, but not all of it, and even if you do, you must still ask many other scholars (it’s better to look from many different sources and see what they agree on, so you don’t fall for a scholar who preach for hate), the scholars should be able to answer your questions based on history, Quran and Hadith, Quran didn’t come in one night, it took 22 years or so to finish, it came in stages, so taking history in the context is very very important, to see when and why that verse came, what’s the situation etc… it’s not easy, that’s why many people who are ignorant about their religion can be an easy prey for ISIS and it’s likes.
http://www.islamforpeace.org/quran.html
Thank you for your reply 🙂
Be free to ask anything 🙂
women got respect in islam ?
check this
Narrated ‘Imran bin Husain:
The Prophet said, “I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women.” (Bukhari, emphasis added; see also these parallel traditions here and here)
Mo said Don’t kill innocent people??
check this
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
NO compulsion in Islam??
Bukhari (84:57) – [In the words of] “Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’
Now please clarify your position, thin head
People who are converting to islam are not knowing about it. they are the most STUPID people i can think of
i convert to islam because i realise that christian hate GOD .
i convert to islam because i realise that the funder of christianity is anti christ.
i convert to islam because i realise that bible is fake book
for more information check http://islamicsign.blogspot.com/
you will realise that only you that are ignorant of islam are animal
you are a lausy moron.
MUhamed was a mortal sex pervart and a false prophet
and allah IS NOT OUR GOD it is traditional god of the arab pegans which predates the rise of islam in the peninsula
KORAN IS AN ABOLOUTE CRAP BOOK WHICH PREACH HATRED AND NOTHJING ELSE
we are not animals but you are basterds
you are a lausy moron.
MUhamed was a mortal sex pervart and a false prophet
and allah IS NOT OUR GOD it is traditional god of the arab pegans which predates the rise of islam in the peninsula
KORAN IS AN ABOLOUTE CRAP BOOK WHICH PREACH HATRED AND NOTHJING ELSE
we are not animals but you are basterds
fastest growing cos muslim men have 3 wives or more all pumping out little jihadis,.fastest growing cos they are killing , bombing, beheading any and all opposition in muslim countries, and cos they use TERROR to keep muslims from leaving the death cult they were born into.. and lastly cos they breed in the millions brainwashed morons like you with the intelligence of a gnat and the open mindedness of a brick…And calling ur kiddy fiddling, prophet a wonderful man, when he was a slaver,rapist, murderer, and terrorist exactly proves every word I just said.
why you dont say the truth .
christianity is a fake religion
I will pray for you, you are lost
You don’t know why Islam is hated? Gee, maybe it’s because it teaches unbelievers like me must submit, convert and die? Maybe because its founder “married” a 6-yr-old child and had sex with her when she was 9?
Here it is from the Islamic texts themselves. Deny it. I dare you:
Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
“Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: “I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).””
Maybe because those who follow its teachings oppress, rape and murder anyone who disagrees with them? Maybe because under sharia women are treated like property or like slaves? Maybe because people can’t even print a stupid cartoon that Muslims don’t like without there being murderous riots?
Maybe because Muslims STILL haven’t apologized for 9/11? Maybe because all over the world the followers of this cult are slaughtering Christians and others?
Gee, maybe those are some reasons.
Islam is only growing because muslims wont stop fucking. When it come to actual realization of what is right and wrong Atheism is the fastest growing. Ive seen and read articles of muslims having 12 children when they cant even raise 1 child in a proper fashion. Too asume that islam is growing because they procreate more than they should is a bald face lie. Islam is the worst thing to happen to the word since the advent of god and its sickening.
Agree with you brother….I have come across many muslims …no decency whatsoever..so immature and they burst out if said anything against them or their prophet…One muslim friend of mine said he killed someone and i was shocked and I dont know far its true but i didnt see any kind of regret in him….So i would rather live as a non believer and opt humanity than being a muslim who outwardly says peace but only has given birth to nothing but wickedness…May their allah bless them n show them way….I really feel like laughing at people who say islam is beautiful…when they are filled with so much of bitterness and wickedness…..
how true
I Live in Indonesia when the most population is moslem (and the biggest on earth), but I am a Catholic..I think europe should rise again and fight islamization, how? not to kill them but start practicing christian faith, go back to church, and let the Christ in your soul. you know europe it’s been sleeping..and it is time to wake up. I thanks God when you guys realize the danger of islam and it make you read your bible. here it is almost every Christmas and Easter every church must protect by police..because it is time potential for bombing the church and christian..we gave them a job and a living but they burn our church and put so many regulation because we are christian..I am very sad when seeing England, France, US are converting to moslem..how do we become in major Islamic country? ..US and France, And England is Christian hope..I warn you IT IS DANGER TO LET ISLAM TO YOUR COUNTRY…because they are legitimated to KILL CHRISTIAN..they are protecting by your Democracy and they are sheltered by their syariah…remember you can not practice your faith in islamic country..but they push you to accept the syariah in your country (Christian land). Please send this post to your friends..and warn them. Hope your president read this. God Bless you All.
Muhammad savior of humanity??
please……….. have some sense
Islam gives itself a bad name. Like it did on 911, for example.
The world is over populated, straining our resources, etc.etc. suppose there were five people in the world, the world needs to get rid of one to survive in peace, without starvation and chaos, what better reason could there be then to get rid of this one, ISLAM. It destruction is coming and they are asking for it. Period
Secularists and moderate Christians can not (will not) fight Islam. They will just set around twiddling their thumbs, refusing to see the danger, until they are given the two choices: Convert or die. The only hope for Europe’s not becoming Muslim is the rise of Christian fundamentalism — fight fire with fire.
Then they shall perish in the fray!
http://islamicsign.blogspot.com/
Europe will become secular. People everywhere, having witness the evils of Islam and Muslims raping and murdering are declaring Religion is Evil! They couldn’t be more spot on if they had read a book or listened to a lecturer. The only issue worth considering at the moment is how Europeans will dispose of 50 million rotting muslim corpses without creating an environmental catastrophe.